tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post8121673837269603518..comments2024-03-18T03:36:29.926+05:30Comments on Controversies in History: Myth of Tamil SangamsModa Sattvahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16790418181426022089noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-10635597312749997922021-08-07T15:08:48.279+05:302021-08-07T15:08:48.279+05:30From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu
(5) In Padirru...From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu <br /><br /><br />(5) In Padirruppattu , the festival of Tirumal (Krishna) has been described. In this the devotees ring the bell of the temple. Observe fasting , bathe in cold water and worship the feet of disc holding Chelva (Krishna) adorned with fresh fragrant flower garland , tulasi. This picture depicts temple worship and later bhakti rituals. In Perumppanarruppadai , Tirumala sleeping over the snake and Brahma sitting on the lotus which emerged from navel has been described. This mythology belongs to the later Puranic period. In Agananuru -123 Uraiyur Mudu Kuttanaar , through heroine’s friend mentions about Rangam , between two rivers where festival takes place on auspicious day of Phalguna month. Similarly in Madurai Kancji , Mangudi Marudanaar mentions festival held on the day of Krishna’s birth. All these references belong to the later age of temples. <br />(6) In Mullaippaattu , Acetics in ochre robe , performing rituals , holding three sticks are described. They are non other than Vishistadvaita ascetics. This practice continues to this today. This poem belongs to the age of Ramanuja. <br />(7) Nedunal Vadai sung by Madurai Kanakkayar Magan NakkIraar provides one interesting clue to fix the date of its composition. In this poem , the procedure to fix the directions of the palace through shadow of pole erected in the ground, measurements to be made , the fort portals and door ways for elephants, seven storeyed palace , the inner residing places of queen where no male except the king can go , the cot of the queen have been explained in detail. Also it is mentioned that palace and fort were built by those who knew Vastushastra. Mayamata , the south Indian Vastu canon , describes land, palace, vehicle and sleeping furniture as four primary elements of Vastushastra. It also recommends 11 , 9, 7, 6 storeyed buildings for Brahmins, Brahma Kshatriyas, Kshatriyas and Vassals. As a reflection to this guidelines queen of Pandiyan lives in seven storied building. It is very clear from this poem that this has been composed when the temple and palace building activities were in full swing during C.E 9-12 centuries when Vastu canons were written. <br />SHANKARAPPA TORANAGALLUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08772831598301766561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-59717138319335133062021-08-07T15:08:07.719+05:302021-08-07T15:08:07.719+05:30From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu
(3) Agananuru-1...From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu <br /><br />(3) Agananuru-12 is written by Kapilar. In this poem heroine’s friend boasts that no one can separate her from heroine since they are like two birds with common body and double head. The sculpture of double headed bird Ghanda Bherunda appears first in Takshashila , now in Pakistan. In south India the most ancient Ghanda Bherunda statue is found in Balligame of Shivamogga District which belongs to C.E 969. Before this Ghandabherunda has not appeared anywhere in south India either in literature or sculpture. Karnataka dyansties- Chalukya, Hoysala, Keldai, Kadamba, Mysore Odeyars- adopted this bird as their emblem on their crowns and seals. Hoysala kings Vishnuvardha, Veera Ballala, Narasimha-2, Someshvara , Narasimha-3 , Veera Ballala-3 had GhandaBherunda as one of their epithets. Kapilar who knew legends of Ghandabherunds through Hoysalas adopted this in his poem. <br /><br />(4) In Agananuru-245 , Madurai Marudan Ila Naganaar infers that camels quell their hunger by eating white bones. In ChiruppaaNarruppadaai , sleeping camel has been described to look like a high wave. Even though camels were referred in Sanskrit literature , there were no camels in South India until C.E 9th century. <br />SHANKARAPPA TORANAGALLUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08772831598301766561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-25306941305325876352021-08-07T15:07:23.174+05:302021-08-07T15:07:23.174+05:30From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu
A few extracts ...From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu <br /><br />A few extracts from my recent book in Kannada ಹಳಗನ್ನಡ-ಸಂಗಂತಮಿೞ್ ಮತ್ತು ಸಂಗಂ ಕಾಲದ ತೀರ್ಮಾನ (Old Kannada- Sangam Tamil And Determination of Sangam Date) regarding internal evidences in Sangam Literature which corroborates to the later date i.e C.E 9-12 centuries.<br /><br />(1) One of the most interesting internal evidence emerges from Aganauru-77 written by Madurai Marudan Ila Naganar. In this poem , the hero who is very anxious to know the response for his proposal to the heroine says thus-My situation is like tearing of the ropes used for sealing of the mouth of the pot and officials picking up a leaf. During C.E 9-11 centuries in chola kingdom , village administers were chosen through election. In this election voters had to write the candidates name over a leaf and to drop it into a pot whose mouth has been sealed by ropes and cloth. After voting has been completed , the winners were selected by picking up leaves by the representatives of the king. This was called as Kuda Murai election system. An inscription of Chola Parantanka dated C.E 920 in Chaturvedi Mangalam near Chennai gives complete details of the entire election procedure. The poet is referring the same to compare whether he would be picked by the heroine or not. Vaidehi Robert while translating this poem to English has provided a note saying that ‘This is a rare poem where voting procedure is described. We see a description of public officials breaking the seals of pots with votes.’ The poem and poet belongs to 9-10 C.E that is the simple explanation- Ochkam Razor. <br /><br />(2) In Purananuru-201 and 202 , Kapilar praises Irungovel as ‘Pulikadiimal’ , the one who slained the tiger. He also says that you belong to lineage of a person who rose from the alter of a sage which ruled northern Dwaraka for 49 generations. In India there is only one lineage – Hoysalas of Karnataka - which claims one of their ancestor killed a tiger and also having their capital named as Dwarasamudra. Hoysalas claim to belong to Yadava clan. The Velir praised by Kapilar belongs to one of the branch of Hoysalas. There is a very interesting historical supplementary proof for this. During C.E 10-11 (?) century the Irukku Velirs were ruling from Kodambaluru in Pudukkottai District of Tamilnadu. In Kodambaluru there are two temples named Muvar Koil recognised as Vikrama Keshareeshvaram and Muchukundehwara with a pond. A Kannada inscription engraved on three stones embedded into the pond have been found. As per this inscription , Velirs belonged to Yadava clan of Krishna of Dwaraka. Velirs had marital relations with Cholas. Kapilar calls Irungovil as ‘Chettu Irungovel’ (Chettu < JyeShTa = senior) . Tamil rendering of Sanskrit word JyeshTa translates to Muttaraiyar or Muttarasar. Muttarasars does not belong to Sangam age as per the now accepted historic chronology. After defeating Cholas of tiger emblem Hoysalas (Pulikadimal) have initiated many Inscription in Kannada in Tamilagam. Kodambalur is one of them. <br /><br />Tamil Lexicons ‘Chendan Divakaram’ and Pingalandai belonging to the same time period recognise Velirs with Chalukyas. Vel is a sharp hand weapon which is same as Kuntala in meaning. The land between Krishana- Godavari rivers has been recognised as Kuntala in Kannada Inscriptions. Therefore Chalukyas were called as Velirs i.e from Karnataka area beyond Tamilagam.<br />SHANKARAPPA TORANAGALLUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08772831598301766561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-86979242913573555712021-08-07T15:06:31.405+05:302021-08-07T15:06:31.405+05:30From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu
A few extracts ... From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu <br /><br />A few extracts from my recent book in Kannada ಹಳಗನ್ನಡ-ಸಂಗಂತಮಿೞ್ ಮತ್ತು ಸಂಗಂ ಕಾಲದ ತೀರ್ಮಾನ (Old Kannada- Sangam Tamil And Determination of Sangam Date) regarding internal evidences in Sangam Literature which corroborates to the later date i.e C.E 9-12 centuries.<br /><br />(5) One of the most interesting internal evidence emerges from Aganauru-77 written by Madurai Marudan Ila Naganar. In this poem , the hero who is very anxious to know the response for his proposal to the heroine says thus-My situation is like tearing of the ropes used for sealing of the mouth of the pot and officials picking up a leaf. During C.E 9-11 centuries in chola kingdom , village administers were chosen through election. In this election voters had to write the candidates name over a leaf and to drop it into a pot whose mouth has been sealed by ropes and cloth. After voting has been completed , the winners were selected by picking up leaves by the representatives of the king. This was called as Kuda Murai election system. An inscription of Chola Parantanka dated C.E 920 in Chaturvedi Mangalam near Chennai gives complete details of the entire election procedure. The poet is referring the same to compare whether he would be picked by the heroine or not. Vaidehi Robert while translating this poem to English has provided a note saying that ‘This is a rare poem where voting procedure is described. We see a description of public officials breaking the seals of pots with votes.’ The poem and poet belongs to 9-10 C.E that is the simple explanation- Ochkam Razor. <br /><br />(2) In Purananuru-201 and 202 , Kapilar praises Irungovel as ‘Pulikadiimal’ , the one who slained the tiger. He also says that you belong to lineage of a person who rose from the alter of a sage which ruled northern Dwaraka for 49 generations. In India there is only one lineage – Hoysalas of Karnataka - which claims one of their ancestor killed a tiger and also having their capital named as Dwarasamudra. Hoysalas claim to belong to Yadava clan. The Velir praised by Kapilar belongs to one of the branch of Hoysalas. There is a very interesting historical supplementary proof for this. During C.E 10-11 (?) century the Irukku Velirs were ruling from Kodambaluru in Pudukkottai District of Tamilnadu. In Kodambaluru there are two temples named Muvar Koil recognised as Vikrama Keshareeshvaram and Muchukundehwara with a pond. A Kannada inscription engraved on three stones embedded into the pond have been found. As per this inscription , Velirs belonged to Yadava clan of Krishna of Dwaraka. Velirs had marital relations with Cholas. Kapilar calls Irungovil as ‘Chettu Irungovel’ (Chettu < JyeShTa = senior) . Tamil rendering of Sanskrit word JyeshTa translates to Muttaraiyar or Muttarasar. Muttarasars does not belong to Sangam age as per the now accepted historic chronology. After defeating Cholas of tiger emblem Hoysalas (Pulikadimal) have initiated many Inscription in Kannada in Tamilagam. Kodambalur is one of them. <br /><br />Tamil Lexicons ‘Chendan Divakaram’ and Pingalandai belonging to the same time period recognise Velirs with Chalukyas. Vel is a sharp hand weapon which is same as Kuntala in meaning. The land between Krishana- Godavari rivers has been recognised as Kuntala in Kannada Inscriptions. Therefore Chalukyas were called as Velirs i.e from Karnataka area beyond Tamilagam.<br />SHANKARAPPA TORANAGALLUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08772831598301766561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-83333113028763877682020-09-30T20:31:19.638+05:302020-09-30T20:31:19.638+05:30are there any similarities between description of ...are there any similarities between description of Kanchipuram in mattavilasa prahasana of Mahendra Vikrama and maduraikkanciKiranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00540309258446960499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-80793811309589128882014-08-04T09:51:03.328+05:302014-08-04T09:51:03.328+05:30Sangam. Poets. May. Exist. As. Saiva. But. It...Sangam. Poets. May. Exist. As. Saiva. But. It's. Antiquity. Is. Not. Too. Early. As. 200. To300. Bc. Pallavas. Cholas. Are. Telugu. Kings kalidas. Said. Nagareshu. Kanchi. Kanchi. Madura. Kumbhakonam. Chidambaram. Are. Enthralled. By. Saiva. Devotees. Of. Telugu. Tamil. And. Kannada. So. Boasting. Too. Early. Is. Not. Good. ukkadamkrishnamurthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17983214867511188218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-50788876317936955882014-07-08T06:39:03.199+05:302014-07-08T06:39:03.199+05:30Moda,,you are doing deep research and analysis. I ...Moda,,you are doing deep research and analysis. I dont like you anyway.Because some time I go by feeling and not by logic. It may be wrong. but here instead of truth results matter. I am totally against false pride.and false superiority.<br /><br />What is your point? Are you a srilankan?Siva the Greathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02576168856018312739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-15087109927074591902011-08-16T20:23:05.318+05:302011-08-16T20:23:05.318+05:30Dravidian Languages are not languages spoken in so...Dravidian Languages are not languages spoken in some Island and not to have any influence. They are well connected and very much capable of influencing and getting influenced by other languages. Especially Sanskrit. To claim these influences as corruption is the most bizarre one. The influences show that languages are healthy and people speaking them are at the forefront of all the changes happening in the world and not stunted in growth to be frozen in a particular level. <br /><br />To claim Influence of Sanskrit is insignificant is a lie propagated from 19th century AD on wards by British and caught hold by so called Dravidian intellectuals. <br /><br />Your theory is funny if Tulu starts with 80% percent Sanskrit , how come it has so few influence.Moda Sattvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790418181426022089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-54874279056490534612011-08-16T20:05:22.222+05:302011-08-16T20:05:22.222+05:30Tamil language in spite of hard efforts to distanc...Tamil language in spite of hard efforts to distance itself from Sanskrit, it still has boorwed a good number of Sanskrit words, of course after corrupting them to Tamil accent. Still compared to other Dravidian languages, i. e., Telugu, Malayalam and Kannada,Sanskrit influence over Tamil is insignificant. Tulu is the other Dravidian language, which has minimal influence of Sanskrit, though the early Tulu literature contains 80% Sanskrit words.Sachidananda Hegdehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16165882417484541987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-66893501766462423112010-11-19T14:05:57.763+05:302010-11-19T14:05:57.763+05:30Tamil Word Really
1) According to Tholkappiam no ...Tamil Word Really<br /><br />1) According to Tholkappiam no word in tamil can start with Sa. <br /><br />2) What is the etymolgogical root word of San in tamil ? (sangha in Sanskrit is for assemby or association). <br /><br />3) The pure tamil words are Santhippu(kooduthal), SanMukam(sanskrit name again), AraSan("an" is ending for male gender not san - arasu + an), Sanal(etymology please), Sanku(Koopidu or karai is the correct dravidian word, sang is pure sanskrit word for call)<br /><br />4)Sanskrit - san(m) + Krit = put together = together + put (Karma -krta)<br /><br />So if you choose to comment come with good back material and I will not publish your nonsense again.Moda Sattvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790418181426022089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-24342239126988482672010-11-19T13:20:54.252+05:302010-11-19T13:20:54.252+05:30The word Sangam is of Tamil origin,
San+Akam meani...The word Sangam is of Tamil origin,<br />San+Akam meaning Group or literally "People Inside". If you want similar words I will give you a list of Tamil words that starts with San.<br />Santhai(Market group of shops), Santhi(Street group of houses),Santhippu(Meeting), SanMukam(Many Faces),AraSan(Goodness to many),Sanal(group of threads), Sanku(Call many), Easan(Give Many) and a lot more. So its clearly of Tamil origin and you claim to be of Sanskrit origin and written some nonsense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-41576130875493773342010-06-18T13:41:08.614+05:302010-06-18T13:41:08.614+05:30The Date of Purananooru article will shed more lig...The Date of Purananooru article will shed more light.<br /><br />http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/06/date-of-purananooru.htmlModa Sattvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790418181426022089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-9385591182045203022010-06-15T20:22:44.462+05:302010-06-15T20:22:44.462+05:30Potarasa mentioned in Belagami inscription in karn...Potarasa mentioned in Belagami inscription in karnataka 1078AD along with Bijjala of Kalachuri Dynasty Feudatory of Taila III (Kalyani chalukya). So who is this pottarasa, definitely not pallava. I think that is a mythModa Sattvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790418181426022089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-58941116035135051252010-06-15T20:06:08.027+05:302010-06-15T20:06:08.027+05:30Perundevanar lived during the period of Kalladar, ...Perundevanar lived during the period of Kalladar, who is dated to 11th century AD.Moda Sattvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790418181426022089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-51876365038382397002010-06-15T19:53:09.954+05:302010-06-15T19:53:09.954+05:30Correction , the sangam writting starts only durin...Correction , the sangam writting starts only during last days of Pallava regime(9th century AD. When Cholas become independent (11th century AD), the chola legends get added. The poems which praise cholas should have been added during that period or later. Much of the legend is when Pandyas became independent (12th century AD).<br /><br />Purananooru speaks about Nandivarman III and their warring sons kampavarman -Nrputunga (killi valavan and Nedunkilli - Nalankilli).<br /><br />Kapilar singing about malayaman is Hoysala prince marriage to Chola princess to save chola throne. <br /><br />so by above considerations the oral form should have been 10th century AD <br /><br />Written form 11th century AD. <br /><br />The complete Classification during 12th and 13th century AD. <br /><br />14 th century AD ,due to Muslim invasion all went underground until 19th century, when they were foundModa Sattvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790418181426022089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-88945434571408573162010-06-15T17:48:28.745+05:302010-06-15T17:48:28.745+05:30From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu
# From the inter...From : N.Shankarappa Toranagallu<br /><br /># From the internal evidences it is clear that the Perundevanar who wrote Bharata Venba -the first epic in Tamil and who was in the court of Pallava king Pottarasa (Nandivarma-3) has written introductory verses to five of eight collections in Ettuttokai Viz., Ahananuru , Ainkurunuru , Kuruntokkai , Nattinai and Purananuru. A few lines of his Bharata Venba have been traced in these collections. This clearly indicates that during 900-1100 C.E period oral Sangam literature was fixed in writing and classification of them was completed. With this as reference Poruladigaram of Tolkappiam has been written.<br /><br /># Nakkirar who wrote commentary to Iraiyanar Ahapporul (800-1000 C.E) , elaborates the myth of Tamil Sangams but no where he talks about Ettuttokkai and Pattuppattu. This supports the fact mentioned above<br /><br /># The first commentary on Tolkappiam was written by Ilampuranar (1100-1200 C.E). He is called as Uarai Asiriyar (Master Commentor). He has not mentioned Ettuttokkai and Pattuppattu. Pearasiyar (1200-1300 C.E) , Mayilainathar (1300 C.E) , Nacchinarkkiniyar (1300-1400 C.E) has mentioned Ettuttokkai and Pattuppattu. This clearly indicates the period during which completion of classification of written oral Sangam literature was achieved. <br /><br /># There is a inscription of 230 lines at the plinth of Temple in Tirukkoyilur issued by RajaRaja Chola in 1012 C.E. which is in Agaval metre. In this inscription the life of Kapilar the poet of Sangam age , his friendship with Pari –Velir of Sangam age is given in detail. The great pains taken by Kapilar after death of Pari to get the marriage of his daughters with Malaiman and after fulfilling this entering the fire to achieve heaven has been described. By this we can interpret that the agaval metre was in use during 11th century as well as the oral Sangam literature was in process of writing and classification.<br /><br /># An inscription of 900-1000 C. in Agaval meter has been found at Erakkanakudi. In this, Sangam Chair over which ancestor of Ettichhattan sat has been been mentioned. By this it can be said that during 900-1000 C.E Agaval meter was in use and popular as well as myth of Sangam Literature was emerging out to full scale. <br /><br /># By observation of the above facts it can be concluded that (1) During 700-800 C.E. Sangam literature which was in oral form was written (2) During 900-1100 C.E the written literature was classified into individual collections Viz., Ahananuru , purananuru,kuruntokkai etc., (3) During 1100-1300 C.E the complete classification was achieved with Ettuttokkai and Pattuppattu.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14430304250566082853noreply@blogger.com